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	<title>Religico &#187; god</title>
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		<title>Who killed more people in the Bible?  God or Satan?</title>
		<link>http://www.religico.com/2009/12/17/who-killed-more-people-in-the-bible-god-or-satan/</link>
		<comments>http://www.religico.com/2009/12/17/who-killed-more-people-in-the-bible-god-or-satan/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 21:29:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Religion]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[bible]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[death]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[die]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[evil]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[god]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[good]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[kill]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[murder]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[satan]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[&#8220;And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.&#8221; -  Job 1:7

Answer: GOD
I counted the number of people that were killed by God in the Bible. I came up with 2,038,344. Now, [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>&#8220;And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.&#8221;</em> -  Job 1:7<br />
<a href="http://www.religico.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/who-killed-more-people-in-the-bible-god-or-satan.jpg"><img class="size-full wp-image-184 alignnone" title="who-killed-more-people-in-the-bible-god-or-satan" src="http://www.religico.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/who-killed-more-people-in-the-bible-god-or-satan.jpg" alt="who-killed-more-people-in-the-bible-god-or-satan" width="613" height="210" /></a></p>
<p><strong>Answer: GOD</strong></p>
<p>I counted the number of people that were killed by God in the Bible. I came up with 2,038,344. Now, of course that greatly underestimates God&#8217;s total kill score.  I only included those killings for which specific numbers are given.  There are many events in the Bible where no number of fatalities are given.  Noah&#8217;s flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the many plagues, famines, etc all are unknown variables, likely to push this number well over 30 million (see below).</p>
<p>Satan on the other is documented as killing only 10 people in the written text of the Bible.  Even those 10 are suspect, as God basically allows Satan to do the killings as part of a &#8220;bet&#8221; (Job&#8217;s family).  Don&#8217;t believe me?  Here&#8217;s the scripture:</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;"><em>There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job &#8230; And there were born unto him seven sons and three daughters.</em></p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;"><em>And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? Then Satan answered the LORD &#8230; put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face. And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.</em></p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;"><em>And there was a day when his sons and his daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother&#8217;s house&#8230;And, behold, there came a great wind from the wilderness, and smote the four corners of the house, and it fell upon the young men, and they are dead; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee. </em> &#8211; Job 1:1-19</p>
<p>So there you have it.  Confused?  So am I.</p>
<p>Now to take this one step further, let&#8217;s put some real world numbers to the rest of God&#8217;s killings.</p>
<table border="0" cellspacing="10">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td align="left"><strong>SAB, Brick Testament</strong></td>
<th align="right">Proof</th>
<th align="right">Number Killed</th>
<th align="right">Cummulative Total</th>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>God drowns everyone on earth (except Noah and his family)</td>
<td>Genesis 7:23</td>
<td align="right">30,000,000</td>
<td align="right">30,000,000</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>God rains fire and brimstone on Sodom and Gomorrah, killing everyone.</td>
<td>Gen.19:24</td>
<td align="right">1000</td>
<td align="right">30,001,000</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Lot&#8217;s wife for looking back</td>
<td>Gen.19:26</td>
<td align="right">1</td>
<td align="right">30,001,001</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Er who was &#8220;wicked in the sight of the Lord&#8221;</td>
<td>Gen.38:7, 1 Chr.2:3</td>
<td align="right">1</td>
<td align="right">30,001,002</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Onan for spilling his seed</td>
<td>Gen.38:10</td>
<td align="right">1</td>
<td align="right">30,001,003</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>7th Egyptian Plague: Hail</td>
<td>Exodus 9:25</td>
<td align="right">30,000</td>
<td align="right">30,031,003</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>God kills every Egyptian firstborn child.</td>
<td>Ex.12:29-30</td>
<td align="right">500,000</td>
<td align="right">30,531,003</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>God drowns Egyptian army</td>
<td>Ex.14:28</td>
<td align="right">1000</td>
<td align="right">30,532,003</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>God and Moses help Joshua kill the Amalekites</td>
<td>Ex.17:13</td>
<td align="right">1000</td>
<td align="right">30,533,003</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>For dancing naked around Aaron&#8217;s golden calf</td>
<td>Ex.32:27-28, 35</td>
<td align="right">3000</td>
<td align="right">30,536,003</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Aaron&#8217;s sons for offering strange fire before the Lord</td>
<td>Lev.10:1-3, Num.3:4, 26:61</td>
<td align="right">2</td>
<td align="right">30,536,005</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>A blasphemer</td>
<td>Lev.24:10-23</td>
<td align="right">1</td>
<td align="right">30,536,006</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>God burned to death an unknown number for complaining</td>
<td>Numbers 11:1</td>
<td align="right">100</td>
<td align="right">30,536,106</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>God sent &#8220;a very great plague&#8221; for complaining about the food.</td>
<td>Num.11:33</td>
<td align="right">10,000</td>
<td align="right">30,546,106</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>God killed those who murmured with a plague.</td>
<td>Num.14:35-36</td>
<td align="right">100</td>
<td align="right">30,546,206</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>A man who picked up sticks on the Sabbath</td>
<td>Num.15:32-36</td>
<td align="right">1</td>
<td align="right">30,546,207</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Korah, Dathan, and Abiram (and their families)</td>
<td>Num.16:27</td>
<td align="right">12+</td>
<td align="right">30,546,219</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Burned to death for offering incense</td>
<td>Num.16:35, 26:10</td>
<td align="right">250</td>
<td align="right">30,546,469</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>For complaining</td>
<td>Num.16:49</td>
<td align="right">14,700</td>
<td align="right">30,561,169</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Massacre of the Aradites</td>
<td>Num.21:1-3</td>
<td align="right">3000</td>
<td align="right">30,564,169</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>For complaining about the lack of food and water, God sent fiery serpents to bite the people, and many of them died.</td>
<td>Num.21:6</td>
<td align="right">100</td>
<td align="right">30,564,269</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>God delivers the Bashanites into Moses&#8217; hands and Moses kills everyone &#8220;until there was none left alive.&#8221;</td>
<td>Num.21:34-35</td>
<td align="right">1000</td>
<td align="right">30,565,269</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>For &#8220;committing whoredom with the daughters of Moab&#8221;</td>
<td>Num.25:9</td>
<td align="right">24,000</td>
<td align="right">30,589,269</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Midianite massacre (32,000 virgins were kept alive)</td>
<td>Num.31:1-35</td>
<td align="right">90,000+</td>
<td align="right">30,679,269</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>The slaughter of the Anakim, the childen of Esau, and the Horim</td>
<td>Deuteronomy 2:21-22</td>
<td align="right">5000</td>
<td align="right">30,684,269</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>God hardened the king of Heshbon&#8217;s heart so that the Israelites could massacre his people. (included several cities)</td>
<td>Dt.2:33-34</td>
<td align="right">3000</td>
<td align="right">30,687,269</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>God delievered the king of Bashan so that the Israelites could massacre his people.</td>
<td>Dt.3:3-6</td>
<td align="right">60,000</td>
<td align="right">30,747,269</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Massacre of Jericho</td>
<td>Joshua 6:21</td>
<td align="right">1000</td>
<td align="right">30,748,269</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>God tells Joshua to stone to death Achan (and his family) for taking the accursed thing.</td>
<td>Joshua 7:10-12, 24-26</td>
<td align="right">5+</td>
<td align="right">30,748,274</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>God tells Joshua to attack Ai and do what he did to Jericho (kill everyone).</td>
<td>Joshua 8:1-25</td>
<td align="right">12,000</td>
<td align="right">30,760,274</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>God slaughters the Amorites and even chases them &#8220;along the way&#8221; as they try to escape.</td>
<td>Joshua 10:10-11</td>
<td align="right">1000</td>
<td align="right">30,761,274</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Joshua kills 5 kings and hangs their dead bodies on trees</td>
<td>Joshua 10:24-26</td>
<td align="right">5</td>
<td align="right">30,761,279</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Massacre of 7 cities</td>
<td>Joshua 10:28-42</td>
<td align="right">7000</td>
<td align="right">30,768,279</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>God delivers the Hazorites.</td>
<td>Joshua 11:8-12</td>
<td align="right">1000</td>
<td align="right">30,769,279</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Massacre of the Anakim</td>
<td>Joshua 11:20-21</td>
<td align="right">1000</td>
<td align="right">30,770,279</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>God delivered Canaanites and Perizzites</td>
<td>Judges 1:4</td>
<td align="right">10,000</td>
<td align="right">30,780,279</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Ehud delivers a message from God: a knife into the king&#8217;s belly</td>
<td>Jg.3:15-22</td>
<td align="right">1</td>
<td align="right">30,780,280</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>God delivered Moabites</td>
<td>Jg.3:28-29</td>
<td align="right">10,000</td>
<td align="right">30,790,280</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Massacre of the Canaanites</td>
<td>Jg.4:15</td>
<td align="right">1000</td>
<td align="right">30,791,280</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>God forces Midianite soldiers to kill each other.</td>
<td>Jg.7:2-22, 8:10</td>
<td align="right">120,000</td>
<td align="right">30,911,280</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>God delivered the Ammonites to Jephthah to slaughter.</td>
<td>Jg.11:32-33</td>
<td align="right">1000</td>
<td align="right">30,912,280</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>The Spirit of the Lord comes on Samson</td>
<td>Jg.14:19</td>
<td align="right">30</td>
<td align="right">30,912,310</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>The Spirit of the Lord comes mightily on Samson</td>
<td>Jg.15:14-15</td>
<td align="right">1000</td>
<td align="right">30,913,310</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Samson&#8217;s God-assisted act of terrorism</td>
<td>Jg.16:27-30</td>
<td align="right">3000</td>
<td align="right">30,916,310</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>&#8220;The Lord smote Benjamin&#8221;</td>
<td>Jg.20:35-37</td>
<td align="right">25,100</td>
<td align="right">30,941,410</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>More Benjamites</td>
<td>Jg.20:44-46</td>
<td align="right">25,000</td>
<td align="right">30,966,410</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>For looking into the ark of the Lord</td>
<td>1 Sam.6:19</td>
<td align="right">50,070</td>
<td align="right">31,016,480</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>God delivered Philistines</td>
<td>1 Sam.14:12</td>
<td align="right">20</td>
<td align="right">31,016,500</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>God forces the Philistine soldiers to kill each other.</td>
<td>1 Sam.14:20</td>
<td align="right">1000</td>
<td align="right">31,017,500</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>God orders Saul to kill every Amalekite man, women, and child.</td>
<td>1 Sam.15:2-3</td>
<td align="right">1000</td>
<td align="right">31,018,500</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Samuel (at God&#8217;s command) hacks Agag to death</td>
<td>1 Sam.15:32-33</td>
<td align="right">1</td>
<td align="right">31,018,501</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>God delivers the Philistines.</td>
<td>1 Sam.23:2-5</td>
<td align="right">1000</td>
<td align="right">31,019,501</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>&#8220;The Lord smote Nabal.&#8221;</td>
<td>1 Sam.25:38</td>
<td align="right">1</td>
<td align="right">31,019,502</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>God delivers the Philistines to David (again).</td>
<td>2 Sam.5:19, 25</td>
<td align="right">1000</td>
<td align="right">31,020,502</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Uzzah for trying to keep the ark from falling</td>
<td>2 Sam.6:6-7, 1 Chr.13:9-10</td>
<td align="right">1</td>
<td align="right">31,020,503</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>David and Bathsheba&#8217;s baby boy</td>
<td>2 Samuel 12:14-18</td>
<td align="right">1</td>
<td align="right">31,020,504</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>God sent a three-year famine because of something Saul did.</td>
<td>2 Sam.21:1</td>
<td align="right">5000</td>
<td align="right">31,025,504</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Seven sons of Saul hung up before the Lord</td>
<td>2 Sam.21:6-9</td>
<td align="right">7</td>
<td align="right">31,025,511</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>From plague as punishment for David&#8217;s census (men only; probably 200,000 if including women and children)</td>
<td>2 Sam.24:13, 1 Chr.21:7</td>
<td align="right">70,000+</td>
<td align="right">31,095,511</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>A prophet for believing another prophet&#8217;s lie</td>
<td>1 Kg.13:1-24</td>
<td align="right">1</td>
<td align="right">31,095,512</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Baasha killed everyone in the house of Jeroboam &#8220;according to the saying of the Lord.&#8221;</td>
<td>1 Kings 15:29</td>
<td align="right">1000</td>
<td align="right">31,096,512</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Zimri killed everyone in the house of Baasha &#8220;according to the word of the Lord.&#8221;</td>
<td>1 Kg.16:11-12</td>
<td align="right">1000</td>
<td align="right">31,097,512</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Religious leaders killed in a prayer contest</td>
<td>1 Kg.18:22-40</td>
<td align="right">450</td>
<td align="right">31,097,962</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>God delivers the Syrians into the Israelites&#8217; hands</td>
<td>1 Kg.20:28-29</td>
<td align="right">100,000</td>
<td align="right">31,197,962</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>God makes a wall fall on Syrian soldiers</td>
<td>1 Kg.20:30</td>
<td align="right">27,000</td>
<td align="right">31,224,962</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>God sent a lion to eat a man for not killing a prophet</td>
<td>1 Kg.20:35-36</td>
<td align="right">1</td>
<td align="right">31,224,963</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Ahaziah is killed for talking to the wrong god.</td>
<td>2 Kings 1:2-4, 17, 2 Chr.22:7-9</td>
<td align="right">1</td>
<td align="right">31,224,964</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Burned to death by God</td>
<td>2 Kg.1:9-12</td>
<td align="right">102</td>
<td align="right">31,225,066</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>God sends two bears to kill children for making fun of Elisha&#8217;s bald head</td>
<td>2 Kg.2:23-24</td>
<td align="right">42</td>
<td align="right">31,225,108</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Trampled to death for disbelieving Elijah</td>
<td>2 Kg.7:17-20</td>
<td align="right">1</td>
<td align="right">31,225,109</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>God calls for a seven year famine.</td>
<td>2 Kg.8:1</td>
<td align="right">10,000</td>
<td align="right">31,235,109</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Jezebel</td>
<td>2 Kg.9:33-37</td>
<td align="right">1</td>
<td align="right">31,235,110</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Jehu killed &#8220;all that remained unto Ahab in Samaria &#8230; according to the saying of the Lord&#8221;</td>
<td>2 Kg.10:16-17</td>
<td align="right">100</td>
<td align="right">31,235,210</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>God sent lions to kill &#8220;some&#8221; foreigners</td>
<td>2 Kg.17:25-26</td>
<td align="right">3+</td>
<td align="right">31,235,213</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Sleeping Assyrian soldiers</td>
<td>2 Kg.19:35, 2 Chr.32:21, Is.37:36</td>
<td align="right">185,000</td>
<td align="right">31,420,213</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Saul</td>
<td>1 Chronicles 10:14</td>
<td align="right">1</td>
<td align="right">31,420,214</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>God delivers Israel into the hands of Judah</td>
<td>2 Chronicles 13:15-17</td>
<td align="right">500,000</td>
<td align="right">31,920,214</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Jeroboam</td>
<td>2 Chr.13:20</td>
<td align="right">1</td>
<td align="right">31,920,215</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>&#8220;The Lord smote the Ethiopians.&#8221;</td>
<td>2 Chr.14:9-14</td>
<td align="right">1,000,000</td>
<td align="right">32,920,215</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>God kills Jehoram by making his bowels fall out</td>
<td>2 Chr.21:14-19</td>
<td align="right">1</td>
<td align="right">32,920,216</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Judean soldiers because they had forsaken the Lord</td>
<td>2 Chr.28:6</td>
<td align="right">120,000</td>
<td align="right">33,040,216</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>God delivered the Israelites into the hand of the Chaldeans.</td>
<td>2 Chr.36:16-17</td>
<td align="right">1000</td>
<td align="right">33,041,216</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Ezekiel&#8217;s wife</td>
<td>Ezekiel 24:15-18</td>
<td align="right">1</td>
<td align="right">33,041,217</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Ananias and Sapphira</td>
<td>Acts 5:1-10</td>
<td align="right">2</td>
<td align="right">33,041,219</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Herod</td>
<td>Acts 12:23</td>
<td align="right">1</td>
<td align="right">33,041,220</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p>Sure makes you question that &#8220;All Loving God&#8221; stuff huh?</p>
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		<title>Morals vs. Values</title>
		<link>http://www.religico.com/2009/09/26/morals-vs-values/</link>
		<comments>http://www.religico.com/2009/09/26/morals-vs-values/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Sep 2009 20:31:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Craig</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Politics]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Religion]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Science]]></category>
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		<category><![CDATA[Morals]]></category>
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		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.religico.com/?p=134</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What is the difference between Morals and Values?  Are morals relative or absolute?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><img class="alignleft size-medium wp-image-138" src="http://www.religico.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/scale-300x194.png" alt="scale" width="300" height="194" />I have held a theory for a long while that I have never really had a chance to express.  This theory surrounds the concept of morality and ethics, their relation to culture, time and the individual, and whether morals are &#8220;relative&#8221; or &#8220;absolute&#8221;, i.e. are morals the same for everyone at every time, or are they relative to the individual or society.</p>
<p>First let me back up by saying that I am a utilitarian.  What this means is that I do not believe morals exist because they are handed down by God or gods.  God might indeed exist, but thats not particularly relevant.  Instead, I believe moral rules, obligations and even political laws exist for a sole purpose: to increase human happiness and decrease suffering.    I distinguish this from pure hedonism or the philosophy of &#8220;if it feels good, do it.&#8221;  There are indeed many actions like taking drugs that feel good and might make you happy in the short term but in the long term cause more suffering and pain to self and others.  I also say God is irrelevant to the discussion because I feel if God exists, he too must be a utilitarian!  The reason is that I do not think a supremely intelligent being &#8220;who is love&#8221; would create moral rules or laws arbitrarily or for his own amusement.  God would not outlaw something &#8220;just because&#8221; or to test people&#8217;s faith.  He must have a reason.  With something like stealing or killing it is obvious that when people perform these actions that they cause misery and pain, so it would make sense that God would outlaw them.   But more on God and morality another time.  For now you will just have to agree or disagree with me that morality exists for a purpose (human happiness) and does not stand in its own right.   It is a means, not an end.</p>
<p>Secondly, I am not a moral relativist, at least not in the strictest sense of the word.   Moral relativism is the philosophy that morals are relative to either the culture or the individual.  What is right for one individual or society may not be right for another.  There is some truth to this.  C. S. Lewis in one of his books talks about modesty as being relative to the culture, such as the amount of skin that must be covered up and how much is allowed to be shown.  In one culture, a lot of skin must be covered up in another not as much.  The reason is that in the latter culture, people are used to seeing a lot of the human body and as such it does not incite feelings of lust or tempt people into unchasteness.  One could argue that this is in a sense &#8220;moral relativism&#8221; but Lewis would deny such a claim.   Or one could bring this down to the individual level.  It might be okay for you to drink, because you have a temperate personality and not prone to getting drunk, however it might be wrong for me to drink if I were a recovering alcoholic.  So there is some truth to that as well.</p>
<p>Moral relativism, despite elements of truth to it, has some obvious problems.  If morals are relative to the culture, and that culture believes its necessary to sacrifice the first born infant, is that morally acceptable?  In some cultures they still perform cliterectomies as part of a ritualistic coming of age ceremony.  Is it right to say that this is an acceptable practice within that culture and we should ignore it?  Or do we have an obligate as outsiders to step in and stop this from happening when possible?  If an individual believes no one should own personal property, does he have a right to steal my car?  There are countless examples where relative morality comes to conclusions  that we won&#8217;t feel comfortable with and would be difficult to create a society we&#8217;d want to live in.</p>
<p>So on the one hand, there are some areas where morality seems relative and others where it seems morality is relative and others where it seems it must be absolute.  What are we to make of this?  I believe the problem stems from blurring the lines between morals and values.  I define morals as the specific rules about what is right and wrong, such as &#8220;do not steal&#8221; or &#8220;do not commit adultery&#8221; to borrow from the ten commandments.  I define values as the things moral rules are defined to protect, those things that promote human happiness (remember, utilitarian here) and decrease human suffering and pain.  Values are such things as &#8220;truth&#8221;, &#8220;love&#8221;, &#8220;life&#8221;, &#8220;freedom&#8221;, etc.  Now my thesis here is that morals are generally relative to the time, place and situation, whereas values are absolute.   For example, nobody values killing for its own sake except the criminally insane.  Life is a human value, not death.  As such its an absolute.  However the moral rule might change depending on the situation.  We generally believe that it is okay to kill in self-defense..   So the rule, the moral, is relative to the situation.  Its okay to kill in self-defense, because doing so protects your own life and might also stop a murderer.  Its not okay to kill for fun.</p>
<p>What is interesting about this philosophy is that with the exception of the criminal psychopaths, we all share the same values.  You can see this in the pro-life versus the pro-choice debate.  Both groups ironically share the same values!  The pro-choice group believes that it is okay to terminate a pregnancy because the embryo prior to the first trimester does not feel pain and is not truly a human being yet, or perhaps they belive the embryo might feel some pain but this is very limited and better than the woman having to give birth to a child she can&#8217;t raise.  On the other hand, the pro-life groups feel that abortion is wrong because the embryo is developed enough to be considered a human being (perhaps at conception), does feel pain and should be protected.  Also many feel that abortion causes side-effects both physical and emotional that harm the woman.</p>
<p>These are admittedly simplified views of the two groups and there are other variations but they&#8217;ll suffice for my example.   I think it can be proven that both groups actually share the same values, they just disagree on the best moral rules to protect and promote those values.  Both groups believe in personal freedom and the preservation of life.  The pro-lifers would be just as against a government program forcing women to have babies and the pro-choicers would be just as against the government forcing women to have abortions the way China does currently.  The two groups disagree because the two values come into conflict in a way that is not obvious to resolve.  The pro-lifers believe that personal freedom must take a backseat to protect life and the pro-choicers believe the opposite or that human life isn&#8217;t in the picture yet to need to be preserved.</p>
<p>This has some interesting connotations.   First it means that moral rules, or at least some of them, are relative to the situation at hand.  This shouldn&#8217;t concern us.  This isn&#8217;t the same as saying morality is &#8220;whatever I feel like&#8221; or &#8220;whatever society says is good.&#8221;  We can judge one society or culture as being better than another based on the health, happiness and other values that we all share.  Of course, its difficult to judge your own culture and easy to misjudge someone else, but this should not dissuade us.  We should try to look objectively passed our own bias at other cultures, other points of view and ask, &#8220;does this work?&#8221;  Does this make people happy, keep them healthy, prevent disease, death and misery?</p>
<p>This also means moral rules can change depending on the time in history. One thousand years ago,  protection of the environment was not a big concern.  If the environment is as big of an issue as some scientists say it is, than we have a moral obligation to protect it, to change our personal habits as well as our political ones to protect our air, food, energy and climate.  This is a new moral concern, relative to our situation and point in history, but the values are the same &#8211; human health and happiness.  You may disagree that the environment is a big concern, but even the most ardent right wing extremist will hesitate to shout &#8220;Pollution is good!&#8221;  This is because we share the same values and just disagree on the rules.  Similarly, other moral concerns may fall by the wayside.  If for example, there was such an abundance of technology and production of goods that everything could easily free (Star Trek fans will recognize this theme) the moral need to protect wealth, business and property may no longer be a concern.  I&#8217;m not saying this will ever happen, but we could imagine it.</p>
<p>I think most people, even particularly religious people, have a sense of this utilitarian concept of morals versus values, even if they don&#8217;t express it.  Religious people will not very often say &#8220;its right because god says so, and thats that&#8221; except for the most extreme among them.  I had a conversation with a conservative Christian about whether premarital sex was morally acceptable.  He told me &#8220;if pre-marital and extra-marital sex were outlawed, sexually transmitted disease would be reduced dramatically or wiped out entirely.&#8221;   He did not attempt to persuade me on purely religious grounds but he was basically saying that we as human beings would be better off if we followed this moral rule.  Although I disagreed with him, its a point I can respect.  At that moment, we were sharing the same values, even if we differed slightly on the moral rules.</p>
<p>We often disagree on moral principles because it isn&#8217;t always obvious what the correct moral action happens to be.  I already mentioned the abortion and environmental debates as a examples of this as are other disagreements between liberals and conservatives.  Often,  two opposing sides will accuse the other as being amoral.  While I think there are definitely plenty of amoral political figures, I think the average person has a pretty decent moral compass, regardless of which camp they fall in.  I have met very moral liberals, conservatives, moderates, theists, atheists, agnostics, humanists and fundamentalists.  I have also met crooks of all flavors.   Most would agree on things like respect for others, hard work, pursuit of love and truth, protection of children, etc. are all values we should promote.  They just don&#8217;t always agree on exactly how to do that.    There are countless gray moral areas even in just day to day life.   I think the solution here is to stand outside our own personal biases and view morality as another scientific inquiry with the purpose of increasing happiness and protecting life.  Moral knowledge will need to be flexible and increase or change, rather than just basing it solely on religious grounds, or ignoring the questions entirely.</p>
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		<title>Does God care about us and is he involved in our daily lives?</title>
		<link>http://www.religico.com/2009/09/07/does-god-care-about-us-and-is-he-involved-in-our-daily-lives/</link>
		<comments>http://www.religico.com/2009/09/07/does-god-care-about-us-and-is-he-involved-in-our-daily-lives/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Sep 2009 04:17:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Bobby</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Religion]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[god]]></category>
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		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.religico.com/?p=96</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Does God care about us and is he involved in our daily lives?
God is a personal God, true or false?
If you don&#8217;t believe God is a personal God who works miracles, how do you pray? Or better yet, why would you bother to pray?
If God is not personal and involved with us in miraculous ways [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><img class="alignright size-medium wp-image-97" title="sistineGod" src="http://www.religico.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/sistineGod-214x300.jpg" alt="sistineGod" width="214" height="300" />Does God care about us and is he involved in our daily lives?</p>
<p>God is a personal God, true or false?</p>
<p>If you don&#8217;t believe God is a personal God who works miracles, how do you pray? Or better yet, why would you bother to pray?</p>
<p>If God is not personal and involved with us in miraculous ways he is no better than an a deaf and dumb idol. God can and does answer prayers. Yes, there are several definitions for the word miracle and different kinds of miracles. If we are asking God to do something we cannot do for ourselves, then for us it is a miracle. We pray to give God glory and honor because he is the great I Am, but mostly we pray for God to come down from Glory and help us in ways we cannot do for ourselves or others. There are different kinds of prayers and we pray to God because he is our only source of power for living spiritual lives in a fallen natural world. And&#8230;. This is what it takes-it takes faith. If your God cannot or does not answer prayer and he is a god who lives off somewhere in outer space, maybe you need a new and different kind of God, One who is always near.</p>
<p>Should we worship the commandments of God or turn to the God who gave the commandments? Do we trust in our ability to keep all the commands perfectly or do we trust in Jesus who has perfectly kept those commands for us?</p>
<p>Jesus is Holy and perfect, we are not. We can never be perfect by how well we obey, so our only chance of becoming a holy nation before God it to have someone stand between us and God. That someone is our elder brother who came to the earth to restore that which the first man Adam lost. Jesus is our redeemer, our elder brother, the first born of many brethren. Salvation is in His power because he is holy, he alone can open the scrolls in heaven.</p>
<p>We must step outside ourselves and see the grace and mercy of our loving God, for we have no strength or power of our own. It is through the power of Almighty God that we exist, that we live and have our being. Alone we can do nothing, together with the power of our LIVING GOD we can live on a much higher plain and do the works that please Him. Our God in us is our hope of glory. Let us give Him all the praise and Glory!</p>
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